Curse

Lyger · Dec 25, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Anywhere in the Desolation with undead groups with 2 acolytes and 2 cavaliers. Factor in Quicksand energy drain from the giants (signet of return, with huge mobs, no energy required and full health when rezzed...yeah). Kill the acolytes first and the cavaliers rez them. Don't go after the acolytes, go for the the cavaliers instead, the acolytes heal them while the warriors pick your back line apart, then rez them because it doesn't seem like quicksand does much to them.

Very solvable with just one skill - Frozen Soil. It's the skill that made it possible for me to vanquish the desolation in the end. I don't think the Awakened mobs are too overpowered once you stop them ressing, and they fall down fast.

Sirius-NZ · Dec 25, 2007, 10:46 AM // 10:46

There were quite a few difficult areas in each campaign, but some things were just far worse.

Tyria (proph) had FoW, UW and Tombs. FoW was relatively easy out of those; Tombs slightly trickier and UW was genuinely quite hard - but could be done by the proficient. Yes, even with heroes.

Factions had Raisu Palace and the Sanctum. Those were near obscene. The Factions endboss is probably the hardest in the game, with the Great Destroyer coming a close second.

Nightfall... yeah. A few. Ruins of Morah takes the cake for the worst mission in the game, from memory... I don't think there was any that was tougher to finish than that one. Then there was the Realm of Torment, which was ... very very nasty.

EotN - dungeons were the worst parts. Although I must mention Cyndr the Mountain Heart, which has stopped plenty of people dead in their tracks as well. Not I, for some reason... but anyway. Frostmaw was nasty, Vloxen was nasty, Slaver's was EXCEPTIONALLY nasty (that said I still managed to H/H Forgewight on NM, albeit going 60 DP most of the way because I didn't bother to cart in anti-burning).

But the one that takes the cake would have to be Domain of Anguish, Hard Mode. Even on NM it was giving the XoP group I was with several false starts, and those guys can handle almost anything... even Vloxen Excavations on Hard Mode, barely missing a beat. I think I'll put it down to unfamiliarity with how to beat it though, since it looked like we were just brickwalling ourselves there. Given that, I have to believe HM DoA is an entirely new level of difficult.

Sha Noran · Dec 25, 2007, 12:03 PM // 12:03

If I had to decide on the hardest challenge I ever faced, I would have to say completion of the Foundry of Failed Creations pre-nerf and pre-Ursan... and pre-PvE skill Paragon zzz fest. I recall being stuck on that for days, just after DoA was put in the game, and one night the planets aligned and a whole lot of really good players were available to come play, and so I was able to form up a retardedly pro group to take it... so retardedly pro that I still happen to have the screenshot hosted:

Dralspire was there too, and so was Mark, but they left just before I took that picture.

I hate to sound elitist, but looking at that party list, I would say that it should be safe to assume that any challenge could be overcome with that group of players. Frankly, that's basically dream-team status.

We failed to complete the area that night, and failing that area with that group really drove home how completely broken DoA was right at release. Honestly... a team of players who are all well known to be very good at what they do come together and are unable to win... what chance could ANet have possibly thought that any even semi-hardcore player would have, let alone a casual player?

Since that night I haven't ever felt as pressured to overcome a daunting GW challenge.

I GO TO AMERICA · Dec 25, 2007, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Shards of Orr - Hard and annoying
Joko's Domain vanq - extremely annoying, one of the worst things I have ever done in a game.

Roo Ella · Dec 25, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Ice Dome STUPID respawn on top of the mob

Beacons to Drocks OMG please spread the mobs out further from each other
Trying to vanquish all that forget it unless you have hours and hours and lots of death removal stuff
I have given up.

TyrianFury · Dec 25, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

I just though I'd post me views on some aspects of the game. I completed my Legendary Guardian without much bother, had some good hard mode buddies so wasn't too bad, granted real players helped a lot.

The main thing that I really dislike about the game and I must stress this is the ridiculous period of time required to complete some hard mode dungeons in Eye of the North. Up to this point you could easily complete most missions/quests in 1-2 hours this includes vanquishing. With Eotn some dungeons such as Shards of Orr, Frostmaws, Vloxen Excavations can take up to 4 hours to complete on hard mode.

I Think NO area should be made to take longer than 1 hour per session with out some short of save system since people with busy real lives can not always be tied to the computer for such long periods of time in one go.

I have managed to compete these , only need 1 more now but the length required is most off putting, not to mention having other people with you that will also commit and not leave mid-way through.

No flaming 'I did it faster h/h are ok blah blah...' we all know some of these places take ages least with DoA each zone could be done in 1-2 hours with only the Foundry being the exception unless you Ursanway it.

This only became an issue for me with Eye of the North. The reason many of this areas take a very long time is the sheer volume of enemies packed into the zones. Perhaps for GW2 or future updates, lesser foes would be better, mid-dungeon outpost or add challenging puzzles to the game rather than another 100 foes to a zone.

Anyone else share my thoughts on the time required to undertake some of the dungeons/missions in the game?

Tender Wolf · Dec 25, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Definately Realm of Torment. Margonites aren't so bad but add them with the level 28 Shadow monsters who won't die (3 eles and a rapid healing monk in one group) and you've got a bloody mess (if there was actual blood that you saw hehe).

distilledwill · Dec 25, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Eeerrrm... Id love to say UW or FoW, but with Ursan its a walk. HM is a little harder (as to be expected) but not the hardest.

Ive heard DoA is still pretty tough in HM.

Slavers dungeons can be solid if you don't anticipate the resing capabilities of the Dwarves. tiny little res-chanting bar stewards!

Alias_X · Dec 25, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

I've been reading some of the areas people think are hardest in Factions, and they seem to be omitting Urgoz's Warren and The Deep.

Cale Roughstar · Dec 26, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07

I have nothing but hate for Shards of Orr

Nonstop Blind, interrupts, massive AoE, = H+H Nightmare...

blurmedia · Dec 26, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar

I have nothing but hate for Shards of Orr

Nonstop Blind, interrupts, massive AoE, = H+H Nightmare...

Was a cakewalk for me with AoM and Aura of Holy Might

I think I had ONE death on the party because of bad pulling, lmao.

Nevin · Dec 26, 2007, 02:27 AM // 02:27

No area in GW is really "hard" its more or less the time you need to devote, and the organization and prep time prior to committing your party.

blue.rellik · Dec 26, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

If I had to decide on the hardest challenge I ever faced, I would have to say completion of the Foundry of Failed Creations pre-nerf and pre-Ursan... and pre-PvE skill Paragon zzz fest. I recall being stuck on that for days, just after DoA was put in the game, and one night the planets aligned and a whole lot of really good players were available to come play, and so I was able to form up a retardedly pro group to take it... so retardedly pro that I still happen to have the screenshot hosted:

Dralspire was there too, and so was Mark, but they left just before I took that picture.

I hate to sound elitist, but looking at that party list, I would say that it should be safe to assume that any challenge could be overcome with that group of players. Frankly, that's basically dream-team status.

We failed to complete the area that night, and failing that area with that group really drove home how completely broken DoA was right at release. Honestly... a team of players who are all well known to be very good at what they do come together and are unable to win... what chance could ANet have possibly thought that any even semi-hardcore player would have, let alone a casual player?

Since that night I haven't ever felt as pressured to overcome a daunting GW challenge.

I had something similar happen. Back when I was a bigger noob than I was now, I was asking my friend for help to do Hell's Precipice on my necro. He's in WASD and was able to get Avarre, Ensign and a whole bunch of other 1337toor players and they basically steamrolled through the titans even when one my friend couldn't make it. They didn't talk to me though because I was too noob

Still it was good to see what a pro group of players can do (and not heroes with good skills) when co-ordinated. The only death was mine (twice) because I was wearing dual sups (yes, you can laugh) and was aggro happy (I tanked two Fists!)

You can't see me · Dec 26, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Interesting thread. In fact, it's really useful to the designers.

Could you include some notes about what makes the area/quest/mission difficult, and whether you think it's too difficult, or just nicely challenging?

The Snowball Arenas.

Reasons:

~Random Team Generations, many don't know how to play.
~Grenth being totally unbalenced from Dwayna.
~Set Skill Bars
~Many abused Bugs, IE, Jack Frost on the Respawn point.
~Many 3 on 4 matches, no punishment to leavers and no replacements.
~Unbalenced Class Abilities.
~Smurfing

Challenging or Too Hard?

Neither.

blue.rellik · Dec 26, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Haha, so that was you! Last time I busted out that screen shot, Avarre told me about that. Awesome, lulz.

Well my situation is better because I got them to help me with something easier!

deya · Dec 26, 2007, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Hardmode Vloxen ... Nuff said :-(

cloudbunny · Dec 26, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

It so much depend on circumstances...
(Do never belittle someone who had a hard time doing an area for the first time.

)

Today, for an experienced team, having all skills, knowing all tricks and abusing the monster AI fully, no area is too hard.
However, for a team only using skills that was available when the area was introduced, and not knowing anything about the area, it is a totally different thing.

- Two newbie lvl 7 players stumbling into the charr shrine in Pre-sear. That is hard!
- The first teams into UW and FoW probably also had a really tough experience.

Today there are more skills and a lot more experienced players, so new "elite areas" are conquered faster and made "public domain" not very long afterwards. One main reason is the "predictability" of the areas. A new elite area very soon breaks down to "stand at point A and use skill 1, then move to point B and repeat". Making "area loads" choose a random combination of several predefined monster spawns would have changed that a lot.

My hardest one was doing the Deep for the first time.
We had a balanced team where no one had done the area before or really knew what was coming. We had heard that knockdown was required so one of us had that. Of course only the knockdown team managed to get out of the first room, but they managed to save the rest. A few times when we got stuck (like the "stand on marked spots to open door"), one of the player checked the wiki and gave hints. We really struggled through the scorpion room, had those teleport-knockdowns every 5-10s, but finally made it through. The rest went really great up to Mallyx. He gave us a really hard time since we only had a single necro enchant removal with too long recharge time. When we finally used the knock down and got the massive spawn we almost wiped, only the bipper survived (me). I had to solo a couple of shadows to rebirth a ranger so we could take out the rest and ress the whole party. When we tried once more with the same result we gave up after almost 5 hours, declaring Mallyx as a "really tough cookie".
But that is also the hardest area, and longest trip I have done with an "on sight" team (not counting pretty short first trips into UW/DoA).

My deepest respect to all who do an elite area without any knowledge before hand!

Some notes for developers:
Biggest adrenaline rush: First time at Chaos Plains UW, with an unprepared balanced team. That interrupt/hex fest was a blast! How we survived it is an enigma, but it felt really good afterwards.
Biggest letdown. Killed by the massive spawn when whole party entered the room in Urzog's Warrens (after 3 hours of struggle).
Most boring: Pull and kill loads of almost identical groups in Urzog's.
Most fun: Central plain in FoW with tankless balanced party using kiting to a combat trapper (oath shot, barbed+dust trap, throw dirt) to get rid of melee.
My biggest dislike: The exclusive team builds needed for DoA. To do that area with different kinds of balanced teams is really, really hard.
Most retries before finishing: Mirror fight in desert. Had no clue of any tricks. Tried to out-damage with a necro blood build. Did it in 7-8 tries.
Biggest struggle before knowing the trick: Flame djinns in Sorrows Furnace.
Best added game feature for elite missions: Reconnect!
I will always remember: First time through all areas of UW with an at the end rather reduced (damagewise) party - 2Mo, 2Me and a bip-necro, after an 11 hour ordeal, 4 hours to get the party together and 7 for the actual trip.

Regards,
Cloudbunny

yarddog · Dec 26, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I'd say there's 4 things that annoy me more than any others:

1. Mobs the exploit the stupidity of H+H.

Usually, but not always, this is about the H+H clumping up and staying in AoE. Prophecies ice imps are a classic example. Forgewight's dungeon is pretty much the same thing over again. The eles and necros in shards of orr go in this list too. These areas aren't that bad with decent human teams (when they can be found), but trying to do them on your own is very frustrating. After going to all the work of giving us henchmen, why go and make monsters that the hench can't deal with?

Allied NPC's are another issue here. Any mission with Prince Rurick in HM is a good example. It's no fun at all to fail over and over because of a mandatory NPC's stupidity. Moreover, Rurick charging mindlessly ahead takes away any opportunity to approach the missions with intelligent tactics and reduces them to exercises in build-design and prayer. Fortunately, from the looks of EotN, I think the devs finally figured this one out a little.

2. Over-buffed Mobs.

Mobs with super stats are no fun to fight. I don't enjoy getting "wtfpwned" by a monster that does 300+ damage per hit; and I don't enjoy being forced into a very small number of options -- PS, obsidian tank, ursan, SY/TNtF spammer, seed bonder -- to have any hope of surviving more than 3 sec. There's no rewarding challenge to it; it's all "dumb" difficulty. On a more basic level, it just feels like the monsters are cheating. DoA and most of hard mode are the worst examples of this. This has been called "lazy design" in the past, and I pretty much have to agree.

3. Super-healing mobs

This is almost a sub-category of #2. Mobs with multiple healers using very-high-spec skills can be very frustrating, particularly when they are hard to shut down thanks to hex/condition removal and/or the HM cast speed bonus. Multi-dolyak HM mobs are an example. Shutting them down at all is a pain, and it forces you into a particular party formation to do it.

(I think a larger general trend is that I don't like "challenges" that force your party-building decisions too much.)

4. Cheesy Environmental Effects

I don't like them. They feel "cheap" and "unfair."

5. Long Missions

For areas like the Deep, Urgoz, DoA, etc. often the biggest challenge is getting a party together with the free time to finish it. Losing people because they ran short of time, and "Afk 45 min for dinner" are intensely frustrating, especially if you've doing well at the mission.

well thought out and written and couldnt agree more.

=DNC=Trucker · Dec 26, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Tyria: Surmia HM I agree - Rurick was designed to do that mission in NM, but in HM it's just a pain to try and keep up with him. Maybe his AI can be changed so he auto-rezzes in HM like the dungeon NPC's in EOTN? Also Ice Floe in HM is pretty nasty in that one area where you seem to always aggro 2+ grps of mursaat.

Cantha: I'd have to say it is pretty balanced, I've done a lot in HM but I would say unwaking is pretty nasty.

Elona: Domain of Secrets. Isn't it enough that the env condition is 40% more energy for skills? Why do we have to have the arm of insanities throwing up quickening zephyr as well? That's way too taxing on the energy. Also, capping sandstorm is pretty rough in HM - it's only a few guys but that group is horribly powerful.

EOTN: Grothmar/Sacnoth in HM are insane. The groups of charr with 2 flameshielders, a mender and a prophet are very difficult. I can't condone any complaints against the shards of orr, most people are probably missing the required amount of holy damage.

Alex Morningstar · Dec 26, 2007, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Sacnoth Valley is a bit much in normal mode, I don't want to think about hard mode. Probably RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing rediculous. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so dark and all the red dots so clumped together. Lovely scenery really, just not worth the effort of going back there.